Listen as Scott chats with North Shore Radio host, Mark Abrahamson, about how to prepare for and help keep yourself and others safe when dangerous weather moves through during your outdoor adventure.
Pack & Paddle: Preparing for Dangerous Weather in the Wilderness Transcript
0:00:00.0 Mark: WTIP's feature, Pack & Paddle with Scott Oeth, is up next. Scott is a Registered Maine Guide, an Eagle Scout, and Minnesota Master Naturalist. He's an instructor with the Okpik National Cold Weather Leader School. He joins us now by phone. Welcome, Scott.
0:00:16.2 Scott Oeth: Hey there, Mark.
0:00:17.8 Mark: So this is a real fitting subject this morning about how to take care of yourself in approaching severe weather. You were in Northwestern Wisconsin this weekend, in the wilderness area, in a storm.
0:00:32.7 SO: Yeah. I just wrapped up leading a group trip. We spent a couple of days on the Flambeau Flowage, which is the largest state-owned lake in Wisconsin, really wild area, third largest in the whole state. And then a day paddling the Flambeau River, lots of nice white water, just a fantastic trip, but boy, we got hit with a pretty big storm Saturday night camping out in an island.
0:00:55.2 Mark: And now what did you do when you realized that there was a storm coming and just to start preparing? We're gonna talk about equipment here too.
0:01:03.3 SO: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think a couple of things. Being prepared is what it's all about, and so checking the weather ahead of time and there is a big difference. When I grew up in Boy Scouts, the term fair weather camper, we'd use that as a derogatory term and teased people if they bailed out just because of a little bit of rain or couldn't handle it. But there is a big difference between a serious storm with high winds, lightning, thunderstorm, flash floods if you're in a river or canyon area, things where there's real dangers versus just a regular rainstorm. So I do think checking the weather is key but beyond that, let's say it's more benign rain, mindset and preparation have a lot to do with... It doesn't have to ruin your trip, you can still have a lot of fun.
0:01:52.1 Mark: Well, one of the things about checking the weather, I remember the old days in the Boundary Waters, back in the '70s, I didn't even get radio coverage out there. So you just had to check the sky and now that's something that... That's different now.
0:02:04.1 SO: Yeah, that's true. I still watch the sky 'cause they don't always get it right, things do change, but I actually didn't have much coverage, really worse than the other people. It's interesting, different cell carriers, sometimes people get coverage or not. They're able to check radar and see, and happily for us, we had some winds, we had a lot of rain, but it was overnight. It's not the best possible time you can have it when you're sleeping and just listening to the pitter-patter on your tent. But technology has come a long way. You can check ahead of time, the long-range forecast have gotten better. You can maybe have some electronics or radio that could give more up-to-date conditions, but also the old time techniques of feeling that cold front coming in, watching the western skies, checking the temperature, animal behaviors, some of those things can tip you off to an approaching storm.
0:02:54.0 Mark: Alright, so let's talk about equipment. So we wanna stay dry and we wanna be safe from electricity, too, and wind. How about a tent? Talk about tents.
0:03:04.0 SO: Yeah. Tents is your home base. That's your bedroom, that's where you're staying, and that's real key. So there's some design features I really look for. There's a big difference in quality tents and cheap tents, but I don't necessarily think you have to have the most expensive tent to stay dry and comfortable in the rain. But a couple of things I really look for. The rain fly, you want really good coverage. A lot of tents, especially cheaper ones, the fly on a two-layer system tent doesn't always come all the way down. It leaves a lot of exposed sidewall and that's not good. The rain's gonna hit that fly, run off and drip onto the sidewall, and it can drip through your tent. So I like a rain fly that comes down to the ground or as close as possible, at least down to where the waterproof under the floor comes up. So that's the key feature. And I love vestibules on tents, Mark. The extended awning of a tent where you can set your wet and muddy boots or your pack where it's a little muddy, or even when you just open the door so the rain isn't immediately hitting you in the face and coming into the tent. Having those vestibules is a great design feature on a tent.
0:04:05.8 Mark: Any preference for metal or fiberglass poles in terms of electricity, anything like that?
0:04:11.6 SO: Well, I do like the aluminum poles. Fiberglass poles, especially in lower-dollar tents, I've seen many of them splinter in high winds and fail. There are some heavy duty tents, that really heavy duty fiberglass poles, but guess what? Those tents are really heavy as well, whereas the aluminum tents can stay lighter. I'm not sure if there's a big difference in terms of lightning risk or that type of thing. I'd be more concerned about the location, but...
0:04:42.2 Mark: And a good tarp that's well anchored. Talk about tarps.
0:04:47.6 SO: Yeah, absolutely. So if you're a kid and you get in trouble, you get sent to your room and you're banished there, and it can be a little confining and a little dreary just being stuck in a tent while it's raining. So you wanna have good rain gear so you can get out and about, but a tarp can allow you to create an outdoor kitchen and an outdoor living room, and there's a real art to pitching a tent and there's... I don't think there's a great cheap and easy way around this, especially in wilderness travel. If you're in the frontcountry, you can have the pop-up type shelters with the poles, but if you're going in the backcountry, you really wanna have some rope, some cordage and learn taut-line hitch, trucker's hitch. We've got some good blog posts on the timber hitch and bowline, how you can use those to allow you to set a drum-type tarp with different types of hitches. And the terrain isn't always perfect where you are and sometimes you need to be able to rig up a pole or go from different trees from different angles. But it makes all the difference in the world, Mark, to be able to have a space where you can get outside, cook your food, set a fire, stand around, instead of just being confined to your tent in the rain.
0:05:50.3 Mark: Alright, let's talk about food and fire then since we're underneath the tarp now.
0:05:56.4 SO: Yeah. Well, surprise, surprise. I think some fun calories can really help the experience, hot drinks are great, and I like to... If space and weight allow, I really like to have... Serve an emergency meal that's just to boil water or a heat-up type meal in case really howling and pouring rain, so we can get something fast and easy and hot into people, and get some calories and some warmth, that goes a long way. But on the flip side, if it's a layover day, you're saying, "Hey, this just isn't a great day to be out on the trail or out paddling. We're in base camp." It can also be a nice time if you have that tarp up, if you have a fire, to have some downtime and try some baking in camp, whether it's with a Dutch oven or reflector oven or even on a camp stove, there's methods where you can use different pot configurations and bake some hot cinnamon rolls or cookies and that can really brighten up a rainy day.
0:06:52.2 Mark: Well, and the camp stoves work but, boy, there's nothing like a fire when you're dealing with a prolonged moist event out in the Boundary Waters.
0:07:00.7 SO: It makes a huge difference, absolutely, and part of it is skill and technique, learning to be able to identify good wood. I'll often find people come back, "Yeah, I found this great log," and you look at it, and you're like, "That's not gonna burn, it's rotty, it's punky. It's a piece of birch where the wood's all rotted out inside the bark." So a bit of understanding, being able to identify what's a solid piece of wood. Even if it's wet on the outside, if you have the right tools, you have a saw and an axe and a good knife, and you know how to safely use them, you can cut those into sections and you can split those, you can get to the dry wood and make kindling out of the inside, and you get that stacked up and stored under your tarp, you can still have a nice hot, bright, cheery fire, and create a nice little micro-environment under that tarp, where you got nice warm, hot air coming up from the fire and you're baking your cinnamon rolls, and you're looking at a cheery fire, even with the rain coming down, and it makes a world of difference.
0:07:56.1 Mark: You're making me crazy, Scott. I wanna get out in the woods here.
0:08:00.7 Mark: Alright, last up, let's talk about clothing. So just that it's so easy to get hypothermic, even when it's this warm, if you get wet out there in these storms.
0:08:09.7 SO: Absolutely, yeah. We were baking in the sun yesterday coming down the river, but just the day before, it was wet, and it was windy and 50 degrees. That is hypothermia weather right there. So clothing is very important. I think it starts, don't skimp on rain gear, and I really like a rain jacket and rain pants, that full coverage. A hat with a broad brim can make a big difference. Hoods are good, but you still can get a lot of rain in your face, and you can tuck a baseball cap or something underneath your hood to shelter your face a bit, but I really like if possible, a big broad-brimmed waterproof hat. That's nice. Even carrying an umbrella, if space allows. You can carry that around to have a little shelter over your head from when you're out from under the tarp. But good rain gear.
0:08:57.1 SO: Ponchos are fairly popular, but they're not great for canoe camping. You don't wanna wear one in a canoe. They whip around in the open wind, they leave you exposed, they could be dangerous if you go in the water and get tangled in them. And I'm a tall guy, and that rain drips off the edge of the poncho and hits your knees and lower legs. So if you do use a poncho, I think they're fine in the woods where it's low wind. I add rain chaps or gaiters so I have extra protection for my lower legs, but keeping your feet dry, either waterproof boots or kind of a nice simple tip is bring some extra bread bags like your mom used to send you out with maybe on winter days, and if you have wool socks, you can pull those baggies over your socks and put your wet shoes on and your feet will still be pretty warm and dried by they're there.
0:09:44.1 Mark: And I would not recommend blue jeans and a flannel shirt underneath all that.
0:09:49.8 SO: I'm so glad you brought that up, Mark. Yeah, cotton is the worst when it's wet, especially if it's cold and wet. So you wanna choose clothing that's synthetics, polypropylene or even just other synthetic clothing. Wool, the nice Merino wool that they make now are great. Those fibers are so much better. Your body can heat them up. They can dry in front of a fire and keep you warm and dry, and I like to use the system, Mark, I have my clothes that are wet that I wear when it's wet out, and then I have some special sacred clothes that are dry and I only put those on when I know they're gonna stay dry. So, it makes a big difference if you know you can get into your tent and you can dry off and you can put on some dry socks or a dry top, you can be comfortable. So it takes just a minute to grin and bear it in the morning when you get up, but I put the wet shoes back on, I put the wet pants back on, but if they're those right materials, if they're the synthetics or wool, it doesn't matter, your body will warm them up in a minute once you get active and then you still have your special sacred dry clothes which you keep packed up in the trash bag, or in the dry bag.
0:10:55.9 Mark: Sacred clothes. I'm gonna remember that one. We've been speaking with Scott Oeth and he is the... We speak with him every month about recommendations for being out in the woods, and this is certainly timely talking about moisture today, Scott. Anything else that you wanna add today?
0:11:14.3 SO: Yeah, maybe just a couple of quick thoughts.
0:11:16.0 Mark: Yes, please.
0:11:16.5 SO: I think bringing some entertainment along can help a lot. If it's safe, I like to still get people out on the trail. In fact, I think one of the best things you can do is, "Hey, let's get out and go for a hike, let's go for a paddle." As long as it's not lightning or dangerous winds, but sometimes it's the layover day too, and having a deck of cards, a pocket game, book... It's nice to catch up on reading in the rain. And I learned a lot from a fellow, one of my mentors and gurus, a guy named Cliff Jacobson. He's written a lot of books about Boundary Waters travel. We have a really nice interview with him on our Bull Moose Patrol blog, and Cliff has taught me a lot about how to have great trips in general, but some of these tips, how to stay warm and dry, and one of his top ones that Cliff taught me and I learned from them about 30 years ago that saved my hide many times is carry some painter's drop cloth, thin plastic sheeting, and put that inside your tent in the floor and have it big enough so it goes up the sides of your tent. You can be camped in a marsh, you could have your tent set up in a puddle, but if you have that plastic sheeting inside the floor of your tent and your gear inside of there, you'll still be dry, and you can still be dry inside the tent, even if your tent completely fails and the nylon soaks through.
0:12:30.5 Mark: That's a great recommendation. Sometimes it's having a drop cloth underneath the tent just makes it into a bathtub.
0:12:36.8 SO: Yeah, yeah, it can help if the ground's moist and you get that moisture, even your body heating up thawed-out ground, but make sure that tarp underneath doesn't stick out from underneath the tent, otherwise the water will hit it and just run under. It can create a bathtub, so if you're gonna use that method, make sure it's tucked under, but if you really wanna stay dry, you want that plastic inside your tent and you want it bigger than the tent curled up the sides, and that'll keep you dry.
0:13:01.2 Mark: Excellent tip.
0:13:02.4 SO: But hey, in a big, big storm, you can even set your tent up right underneath an extra tarp and have a big canopy overhead. That works great as a sunshade in hot weather, and also in the heavy rainstorms.
0:13:14.9 Mark: Thank you so much, Scott.
0:13:17.0 SO: Yeah, thanks, Mark. Love talking about this stuff with you.
0:13:19.1 Mark: You can follow Scott's adventures at www.bullmoosepatrol.com and all sorts of great articles and recommendations there too. Thanks so much. We'll be speaking with you next month about pack and paddle.
0:13:31.5 SO: Sounds great, Mark. Thanks.